Tuesday, June 27, 2006

Answer me this

I'm not admitting to anything here (ahem), but is it wrong and/or sinful to be motivated to workout by wanting to look hot and sexy?

I always thought it was vanity (sinful), but I find it is a major motivator at times (sometimes my only motivator), and I'm wondering if that is bad, a sin, or something that will lead me to an eating disorder down the road. (Hmm, I realize many--maybe most?--eating disorders don't start out of a "I want to look good" mindset; they often start from a desire to control uncontrollable situations or gain attention.)

I don' t think there's anything wrong with wanting to be fit for your husband, but what if your motivation was also convoluted with desires to look good just for your own sake--or to drive your ex-boyfriend insane with jealous. Hmmm...

HELP!

24 comments:

aola said...

I think it is high time that we recognize ourselves as the sensuous creatures that God created us to be and not be oppressed or suppressed by those old (religious)traditions of men.

Jeanne said...

As with all things we should look at the motive of the heart. Of course we want to be sexy for our hubbies. But...if we want other men to look at us, we could be a stumbling block. Or if it's to drive our ex crazy, it may be revenge. And, in case you think I'm being judgmental...not so! I've been in both places (its tripping me up, too, now.) and in a couple other related places regarding this very issue. However, as with anything, I suppose we should do it because it's right to take care of ourselves and if the other motivations aren't fueling compulsivity or obsession, then maybe they're useful. It's good to discuss it and it's good to allow some accountability for it, so it doesn't become detrimental.
Sheesh...what a preacher (don't worry, I heard myself. :o))
Incidentally, I also agree with Aola - we need to accept that we're supposed to be sexual, sexy, sensuous.

aola said...

I agree with you Jeanne in that we shouldn't ever use our looks/feminity to manipulate but we need to stop feeling like we need to hide our sensuality/beauty and I don't think a beautiful woman has to or should dress like a tramp. I don't think there is anything more beautiful than a woman modestly and nicely dressed - the beauty shines thru.

E. Michelle said...

well, K...
you might remember that I recently posted that at my new workplace I am "hot"
allow me to use that as a backdrop to my answer.

It seems to me that at my workplace there are a LOT of guys most of whom are unwed. There is a sense that they are in some sort of fraternity-- not deep friendship but a sort of comraderie.
With the women there is not the parellel sense of sorority.

When i first arrived, I was fresh meat really. It felt completely like a meat market. I was bombarded with attention from men. some of it was innocuous, some not, but it was constant at first.

Immediately two or three of the girls distanced themselves from me, even sometimes mocking my conversations with some of the guys. Obviously these co-workers of mine were jealous.

I will admit this made me angry... I had done nothing wrong. But more than this, it alienated me from these girls. I started gravitating to some of the guys for conversation.

At this point, I analyzed the situation on a day off and came up with

1. The prize at work is Male Attention, the women compete for it.
2. the woman who gets a lot of male attention is able then to flip the script to become herself the Prize. Now most of the men want to talk to her.. they talk about her. they wonder about sex with her and talk about that more or less vaguely.

3. woman now feels in power in the social situation.

4. Some of the other women feel their leser status (if only because they have already worked there for four years and are not "fresh") and resent the woman in power.

So while it may have felt great to be queen newbie, it alienated me from my fellow women and made me more dependent socially on the men. I also felt myself becoming more emotionally fixated on (some) of the attention.

Though you may work somewhere with more sophisticated social transactions, i imagine there could be some parallels. certainly the interactions are similiar at they gym, if somewhat muted by anonymity.

My point to you Kristen and to myself is that
1. the male gaze must not be the prize because

this reduces (not meant as lessens) the man to his sexual component and you to yours. if you actually knew this man this reduction would be a problem as you and he are actually much more than these aspects and must relate on all the other ones and not this one, as you are married.

2. Persons must be valued in their Personhood. I am trying to develop that sense of sisterhood, talking to more women at work. By doing so, I reaffirm that sisterhood is a prize, that I care to know these women and that I am not willing to make them feel Lesser so that I, by willfully capturing attention, can feel More.

3. I insist on having respectful and quasi-meaningful conversations with my guy co-workers. This makes it harder for them to treat me like meat.

I can't correct the system really. But I can refuse to perpetuate it.
i think a good-looking woman, like you K, has power in her Beauty. I think there are ways to exploit this power that are tantamount to exploiting oneself. I think there are also ways to redeem this power. I know you to be very very intelligent and I believe you can find ways to redeem the power that comes along with your Regal Hotness.

LOVE.

Sandra said...

I don't see anything wrong with wanting to look/feel hot and sexy as long as we realize that it is just one facet of who we are. We also have to look realisticaly at what we view as hot and sexy. I've seen women much larger than me who were so comfortable with their body that it made them hot and sexy. Learning to love ourselves for what we are/have is a big part of feeling hot and sexy. If we don't have that self love to begin with we won't have it at any size.
We've got to learn that we are not cut from a cookie cuter. We are all different and all beautiful. Women have such a tendancy to judge one another or compare themselves to one another. We need to learn to see the beauty in each other and praise one another for it.

R said...

Erica,

What a great comment! I love the part about how the male gaze can't be the prize. I also love your insights about women. I find myself usually dressing for women . . . imagining their comments or thoughts.

Kristen,

Great question. First, what is sexy? Right now, society defines it one way (thin), but Boticelli thighs used to be in . . . I guess I think sexy is confidence . . . regardless of the size.

Too often I have used how I look (usually my weight) to make myself feel better than others (when it's low), or to give myself an excuse for isolation (when it's high). I've used it as some type of moral justification for what type of person I am. That's wrong, in either case.

I think I'm straying from the original question, but the body is such a minefield.

On the other hand, there is power in beauty. My husband is gorgeous. Truly. People are drawn to him (men and women) partly because of how he looks. The old women at church fawn over him, and the young boys follow him around. For him, it opens doors in good ways.

So, I'm all over the place on this one. Beauty has power. Power can be good or bad. Do I want the power that beauty can bring? Yup. Is that good or bad? Probably depends on why I want it. If I want it to make myself feel superior, not so great. If I want it in the same way, I also want to be one of those people who when you step into their presence you feel loved, it's probably okay.

Yeah, I'm pregnant -- will that work for excusing this convoluted mess?

Jeanne said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Jeanne said...

You women are amazing! I'm printing this.

Kristen said...

You all have given me a lot to think about. I was hoping someone would just say, "Wanting to look hot is a good motivator in and of itself and you don't need to feel bad," but I guess I'm out of luck. :)

Other women don't really fit into the equation for me. I mean, I'm sure they do, but I just don't give them much thought. It's bad, but compliments on my appearance from other women don't usually mean that much to me. I can only think of one "female compliment" recently that even sticks out to me. I never feel like I am competing with other women, and if they want to project their insecurities on to me, I just ignore it. (Perhaps, Erica, I should be more aware of it though.)

At work (really my only nearby social circle), my husband is there, so I am "protected" in some sense from other men (although 95% are Christians anyway), plus I am the youngest woman there (by 10-40 years), so...I think the women are all mature enough to not see me as "competition" or anything like that.

I don't actually see any ex-boyfriends (that I care about anyway) here in town, but I relish the idea of looking hot at a college class reunion some six or seven years down the road. I was pudgy and mousy in college (although I had plenty of dates--no problem there oddly enough), so looking cute in six or seven years and making one particularly evil ex-boyfriend do a double take would be nice. But it's nothing that I focus on normally.

I'm confessing more than I like, but honestly, up until a year or so ago, I considered myself really, really not pretty at all. Decent. But not pretty. (I am growing to accept myself and see some beauty in me, even if it's not traditional (ha! whatever that is!) beauty.)

That combined with father abandonment issues, I believe, makes me crave male attention more than normal, but it has never driven me to dress provocatively or do anything...solicitating, I guess you could call it.

Damn, I need to see a therapist, don't I?

Anyway, thanks for all the thoughts, ladies.

aola said...

I've been sitting here for a few minutes thinking about these GREAT comments.
And,I find myself going round and round in circles in my head about this subject.
We have pretty much strayed from the original post about whether it's sin or not and I'm glad we are getting more to the root of
it.
The power of beauty and how to use it wisely or maybe how not to misuse it or abuse it.
In my younger days I was hot, not beautiful, but very sexy and I learned to use that to my advantage. Men don't mind a bit giving you that power as long as there is the possiblity of getting laid. But, after a while I really got tired of being hit on. I began to hate that sexuality had so much to do with every relationship.
When I married Mark I vowed to God not use that power to hurt him or take advantage of him.
One of my favorite things about being old and fat is that men don't hit on me anymore and the relationships that I have now are based on my person not my body.
But, back to my earlier comments of recognizing our beauty...
for me that is accepting me as I am, soft and sensuous and loving myself, not being ashamed of my pudgey self, being able to carry myself with the dignity I deserve.

You girls are amazing!!

aola said...

Oh,yeah and Kristen...

"Wanting to look hot is a good motivator in and of itself and you don't need to feel bad,"

Big smile

R said...

I know -- I should be on to body love, but I'm still stuck here.
About women -- I prize the approval of other women more than men, and I'm pretty sure that this makes me abnormal. The only way I can explain it is that I have never had a problem getting many to approve of and like me. I'm more comfortable in their company, but women? Women, I seem to piss off by existing. Maybe it comes from being a daddy's girl for way too long. Okay, I know that's random but Kristen's last comment triggered it.

E. Michelle said...

okay, this is interesting to me, Becky, because I feel as you do. In a social situation i seek out the males and usually have an easier and (more rewarding) time winning their attention and approval.
Girls? I get along with girls in the singular. Women in the aggregate feel llike a different story.

I was also a total daddy's girl, somewhat alienated from my mother in my formative years and adolesence.

E. Michelle said...

i think it is interesting too that for Kristen a compliment from a woman is not nearly as meaningful for her as a compliment from a man.

E. Michelle said...

okay and one last thing:

I can totally se the rationale behind not concerning oneself with every jealous person in one's sphere...

but now I kind of hold that in tension with the "love you neighbors" bit... I know I come with baggage and I have had amazing people carry enable me in areas I didn't even know I was a totally dead weight.
a friend of mine Regan Frizelle (aaron frizzelle's wife from SAGU,K)
is a total barbie-cheerleader beauty. She is the "type" of girl that I assumed I
a. would have nothing to do with and B. could have nothing to do with.

she was intimidating to me in her foreign and Most Universally Powerful beauty. But she really made me comfortable because she is So funny and genuine and kind. If she hadn't stuck herself out there, brazenly really, for my "acceptance" I would still be projecting my insecurities on to her. Oh, I suppose I could have mentally tried to hurdle them, but she knocked them out of the way !
I think of her when I think about taking positive responsibility for how people perceive me.

Beauty is competitive because of marketing. because the pageant reflects a deeper reality that one must wear the beauty crown. Down with that!
I think we'll need each other's help to pull it down.

Kristen said...

"i think it is interesting too that for Kristen a compliment from a woman is not nearly as meaningful for her as a compliment from a man."

Like I mentioned before, Erica, I blame that on my own "father abandonment" issues (I was never secure in my father's love for me or my mother--there was a constant threat of abandonment there). My mom's love on the other hand was just a given. A wonderful given, but a given nonetheless.

I hope you don't read a whole anti-feminist, patriarchy thing into all that. It's just my own personal issue, not a devaluing of women as a whole or the influence of society on me, in my view of things.

I find it interesting that Erica, Becky and me were all "Daddy's girls." Hmmm...

Kristen said...

By the way, this is totally me also, Erica: "In a social situation i seek out the males and usually have an easier and (more rewarding) time winning their attention and approval.
Girls? I get along with girls in the singular. Women in the aggregate feel like a different story." Sometimes I literally have to go outside and take a breather when I'm with a gaggle of ladies. :)

Kristen said...

Oh, and thanks, Aola!

R said...

Erica,

When people talk about patriarchy, my first instinct (which I'm trying to analyze and deal with) is to say -- Men? Men aren't my problem. Women are my problem. Somewhere along the line I learned to talk so men can hear and women can hate. Thus, I'm pretty used to getting along with men, but I've always had to work extra hard to enjoy the companionship of women, whether it be at home or in the workplace.

I like the pageant allusion. That becomes part of our psyche so young -- my niece's bedroom is a princess bedroom. They call her princess. I hope there is room for more than one princess in her psyche -- for she will surely evolve.

I'm working on my prejudices about certain looks and women, too.

So, how do we reimagine beauty? Beauty not as contest, but as -- as what? As self-awareness? As a gift instead of a prize?

Kristen,

Isn't it funny how much we are shaped by early experiences? For me it was opposite. With my mom, I was one of four kids. With my dad, I was simply his little girl. When I would complain about my siblings, he'd say he was happy with just me, but Mom wanted more. Such an innocent remark, but I interpreted it as meaning that for my mom I was not enough. Obviously, I carried that around and projected it. Sigh. But this is why we blog -- cheap therapy.

Sandra said...

"So, how do we reimagine beauty? Beauty not as contest, but as -- as what? As self-awareness? As a gift instead of a prize?"

I think in order to reimagine beauty we just have to open it up and allow it to be all that it is. We box up beauty into what we see on t.v. or a magazine cover. We tell ourselves that we will be beautiful if or when this or that happens. Like Aola's post about her belly. It is beautiful because it has carried life. The wrinkles on my grandmothers face are beautiful because the story of her life is told in their soft folds. We need to step back and see that beauty is big enough to hold each of us.

Jeanne said...

Wow! I looked at this post this morning and I thought, "this hit a nerve with the girls." Now, at the end of my day, I see this maybe hit ALL our nerves. Heh heh. I cannot tell you how much this particular post and all your comments mean to me. Such insight. I also am a one woman at a time person. I also need the break if there are too many at once. And I crave male attention for daddy abandonment issues and the things Kris mentioned. But, the insights here are worth life application for me. It's a huge issue obviously. Amazing women, all of us.

Kristen said...

"We need to step back and see that beauty is big enough to hold each of us."

Sandra, that is awesome. Wow. Thanks for sharing that.

aola said...

I've been thinking about the "Daddy girl" thing... I suppose we are all Daddy's girls, we needed his approval more than we needed our Mother's approval but WHY? Really, I would like to know why you think that is? Is it natural, were we born with the need to please men? or is it something we were taught? and if it was taught, who taught it to us at such an early age?

I used to feel more comfortable with men, I talked their language, I liked the way they thought - how simple they were and how easily you could (seemingly) control their emotions. I was never a girly girl and for that reason felt uncomfortable with a lot of women. Not so much anymore because most of the women I know now are not shallow empty headed bimbos, they are strong, deep, smart, and passionate and I find myself more and more seeking out the company of and the advice of these women and care very little what men think because we all pretty much know what men are thinking.

R said...

For me, his approval just came easier.